ChrisWrestling's blog
Pro and Porn wrestling
This is one of those topics that maybe I will one day cover on my channel but I have to be careful there because I don't want to come across as kink shaming or telling people they are wrong for liking something. If it weren't for PWP, BGEast, LtsWrestle, etc I might not have become interested in wrestling as I am today. If you have seen me around then you probably know I love bodyscissors, bearhugs, chokes, etc and other than chokes the others aren't exactly used for submissions in legit submission wrestling as they take too much energy/strength or are low percentage... or too dangerous at times. All I'm saying here is that if it weren't for the pro/porn influence I probably wouldn't be here for better or worse. These things have their place but I do take issue over how they influence the people who make up this wrestling community.
The youtube wrestling class project I did over Covid was intended to help those who wanted help, change the perspective of those who are active wrestlers, and to answer questions for those who were seeking answers. I suppose I may never know if I made a meaningful difference for anyone and I have fallen off being active for many reasons, some injuries, a lot of work after buying my first house, kidney stones, and it wasn't a reciprocal process. I simply don't do well talking to a camera over a long period of time and the need to continue making content was becoming taxing. What I do feel I accomplished was being one of the only influencers who actually covered the basics. Fancy shit makes for much better click bait but that wasn't my goal. I wanted to give people everything they needed to be better than 99% of the people on this site. I think I did that but you can lead a horse to water, can't make them drink it. Getting good takes drilling, rolling, dedication, hard work and the longer I put myself in that position the more I saw that no one was actually going to follow the program in an effective way which would get them where I wanted them to be.
Then came the questions I got in emails, on here, etc and most of them were pointed back to something they saw on Naked Combat or WWE or some random porn company and I was left somewhat speechless. A lot of my answers ended up being that that would never work in a real match where you have a resisting partner. Open a new tab and go to your favorite porn wrestling video or WWE match and ask yourself, is this happening because the jobber is letting it happen? Most of the time the answer is very much so no. This is also why the word "promission" bothers me because the idea is that you actually submit using pro techniques BUT if the techniques weren't bullshit they would be adopted into submission already. BJJ and Submission Wrestling are living martial arts, people add to them all the time at a rate that makes effective training difficult. It won't be long before there is some kind of inverted buggy choke from north south and a top grappler will get caught off guard by it and lose his undefeated status. You can't prepare against something you have never seen before. Yes, a camel clutch is hard to get out of when you're cranking it on but good luck getting it on a BJJ blue belt, or even a white belt with one stripe.
But, people are just having fun, right? There's no harm, right?
Well, about a decade ago I rolled with a local guy who mostly did pro "and" submission. We met for coffee and got along fine and agreed to wrestle. We had agreed on rolling real submission, I made sure he knew to tap early and tap often but when we rolled he never tapped. Instead he "sold" the submissions as a pro wrestler would. I imagine you can see where this is going. We ended a little early and I woke up to the first and only bad review I have ever had on here. He was a different person altogether. Our reviews became a back and forth till the moderators on here blocked us from each other and removed the reviews. He has since deleted his profile and started a new one but I have no desire to give that another go. The point of all that was that in that case the influence of pro wrestling had lead to injury and hurt feelings.
You know, if it gets you off then it gets you off and it's not my place to say that's wrong but at times I think a reality check is needed. That being said my biggest issue with fake wrestling is that it over-saturates as people's primary influence. Look, wrestling is a tough sport and gay wrestling organizations don't really tend to last. San Francisco is losing their club I think this year, we lost ours in Seattle the year before I moved here and I don't know anyone with the drive, experience and willingness to start a new one. My husband wants to be trained like a soldier in boot camp, I want to be trained like a wrestler in college. I want that speed, strength, physique, skill but real wrestling isn't actually sexual when you're doing it and from what I've seen gay men mostly want their wrestling to be sexy, even when they are saying they don't want sex.
This disconnect between what wrestling is and the fantasy of wrestling keeps people from discovering why athletes love the sport. 80% of or society is overweight or obese and most of us, myself included, are not nearly as active as we should be. We should be taking an interest in real wrestling because we are a marginalized community who is viewed as weak by the straights. We have anxiety and depression, we don't eat well, we often don't connect with the people around us. We should be seriously training because it gives us goals, it challenges us, we meet new people, it humbles us, we get to accomplish great things, and if we want to be dominated we know who can do that for real.
If you get nothing else from this blog get this: real wrestling is a fantastic thing and if all you know is what was made to be jerk off material or entertainment for rednecks, branch out, give BJJ a try, start a club, join a club. The community can't be built by one guy with a camera, it starts with you becoming the best possible version of yourself and then bringing a friend along for the ride.
Thank you for reading,
humbly yours,
Chris
Tuhin biswas (3)
16/08/2023 15:49I understand what you are saying and I really want to learn real wrestling but where I am from we don't have that and I also don't have that much time after work studies and energy after going to gym 5-6 days a week to learn the real thing religiously And when I fight I fight seriously but also when we are done the sweat the body of my fighting partner turns me on
PittProWrestler (8)
16/08/2023 18:41As someone who actually actively trains pro wrestling, I kinda get what you are saying. Most people who claim to know pro wrestling on this site don't really know what they are talking about, and it can be a real struggle to find opponents. But that's just how it always goes, compatible people are hard to find when you're at a high level. Why the shame and dismissal? Pro wrestling is still a good sport that requires a lot of training and a good amount of athleticism. "Because we are a marginalized community who is viewed as weak by the straights". What about all the straight pro wrestlers and fans out there, and why do you care about what "the straights" think? "Entertainment for rednecks", what about new japan or lucha libre?
I admire your effort to create a community, but at the end of the day, people like what they like. It's hard to find ideal opponents on a recreational site when you are more professional. I really think that's what it is. You don't need to elevate it to somewhere it doesn't need to be.
Hard2Hold (10 )
16/08/2023 21:33I think the original post is on point. Fantasy is great, consensual sex of any type is great, and "wrestling porn" is great. But it can confuse guys on what is real, and limit us in ways that that we may not even be aware of.
After being on this site for a few months, and meeting up with guys for matches (which were all fun in their own way), I decided I really sucked at having any real skills, even though I won most of the matches. And I was not at all happy about that.
So I took a step back to try to figure out how I could become better. I realized I would never get much better by simply having more matches with guys from this site, because most of them were not very skilled either. There are exceptions, but those guys would not have time to train me anyway. And there isn't much energy around wrestling clubs these days. But luckily there is a really good answer to be found in Brazilian Jiu Jitsu training, which is available almost everywhere now. And with the rise in no gi BJJ, it's the perfect opportunity for building skills that are equivalent to traditional wrestling, and probably even better from a fetish perspective. So I started training in no gi BJJ.
I think there are profound opportunities for brotherhood, building community, health benefits, and enhancing fetish play in this approach, and I hope more guys consider it.
musclwrestler (0)
17/08/2023 23:50Very good article, man. Real, actual wrestling is tough, requires discipline to train, eat and rest properly. Very, and I do mean very, few people actually have it in them to do this. Is the body contact and gear hot? Well, if course it is. Does it make people horny? (Me included) You bet it does. But there is something to admire and look up to in guys that train for this for real. I've often had the same thoughts as you. It's nice to see I'm not the only one!
Swemoro (24)
18/08/2023 14:57Great post! Also I will say that while the erotic/kinky sides of wrestling are super fun and enjoyable, the most fun I've personally had has actually been just regular bjj/grappling sparring with guys off the site. I do hope more of us will decide to take it up and that the community grows further to eventually start clubs or mini get-together groups where we could just train and sparr together, maybe even reaching the point of having tournaments :)
Centaur (63)
18/08/2023 15:00Couldn’t agree more with you Chris! About time someone said it, the whole site and scene is tarnished by some guys not knowing the difference between kink and sport.
A ultra light roll and a wank in gear is not a match it’s kink sex, which is fine for what it is, but don’t whine when you meet a real sub wrestler who kicks your ass and you don’t like the real deal.
💯 agree great post!
Peter Hughes (69 )
18/08/2023 20:09Very good and thought-provoking post. I too have had a previous opponent who "held back" and didn't wrestle to the full extent of his capabilities, and it was a disappointing experience. And you guessed it - he was a renowned gay porn wrestler for a company out in California. (At the time I didn't know who he was, because I wasn't renting that company's DVDs.) I refuse to name him because I don't want him to be targeted on this site.
Who do I blame for this? Partly myself, because I should have known better. But I also have to blame (as Centaur said) the guys who don't know the difference between sex and sport. All I can say is that if we agree to a submission match, you'd better come at me with all you've got, because I will certainly bring my "A" game to the mats. Period.
JW130kgYYC (4 )
19/08/2023 1:20As a straight man, I loved your videos. I learned a lot, and I have been taught to never underestimate a skilled wrestler. I’m in a community club, and one of our coaches is out, but he’s a tough SOB. And skilled. Together, he and I are working to create an adult aged program that will be open about the fact it is LGBTQ+ friendly and inclusive. I hope it inspires wrestlers of all types to come out and see what the sport is all about.
Keep being your best you. You rock.
Jeremy
oahurookie (0)
19/08/2023 10:21Having wrestled in high school for a bit, I agree that there's a big difference between a real match and a "fun" one. There's a lot of technique to learn with real wrestling and it's not always that fun. However, it's also enjoyable in it's own way, getting to test each other in a competitive way.
JW130kgYYC (4 )
19/08/2023 14:20(In risposta a questo)
100% this.
Both are enjoyable, but both are very différent and it’s important to know which is which. But even when wrestling just for fun, unless you’ve mutually agreed that you are trying to sell holds, you still need to use your brain and remember that if your joints are moving in a way that they shouldn’t, tap or give before it gets to be too much and permanent injury occurs.
Peter Hughes (69 )
21/08/2023 0:14(In risposta a questo)
Reading this blog and Ben Monaco's recent post show two sides of the same coin to me regarding play vs real wrestling. Did anyone else get that interpretation?
gymrat (37)
29/08/2023 21:42You are laying out the importance of communication - and why recs are our best friend.
I get a lot of "hey, nice _______ let's wrestle".
Um, who are you?, why me?, what do you want out of this?, what style?, did you read my profile? :-). (quick answer: rarely) I can have fun with practice, serious, learning, teaching, roughhousing. But its nice to know which not only before we begin, btus before I waste a lot of time.
And I'm too old to get hurt, and prefer not to hurt anyone else.
Just communicate.
ChrisWrestling (45 )
29/08/2023 23:36(In risposta a questo)
Yeah, communication was definitely not the problem in the example given.
gymrat (37)
29/08/2023 23:49Sure sounds like it was: he didn't tell you what he really wanted and he didnt read or listen to what you wanted.
On your end, it sounds like YOU communicated - but comms takes two :-)
No?
Columbus Wrestler (7)
01/09/2023 1:52I enjoyed reading this blog post and identified with it. I am always looking for high school/ college type matches and don’t get many responses and even when I do it seems the other guy has other ideas as to what folk style is. Realized I was not communicating what I was really looking for and doing so helped me avoid those meet ups where we’d start wrestling and after about 15 minutes the other guy would quit because it was too competitive. So I just found a judo club and go there to get my wrestling needs satisfied. I just keep open to contacts on this site but don’t expect many contacts but if something works out, then good.