MeetFighters News
Providers and Consumers
:This is a longish post, but please read it as it might have far-reaching consequences about this site as we know it.
In the roughly one and a half years that AllFighters has been up and running, we have grown from a dozen guys whom I have invited personally to a radically larger community. I never actively advertised the site, other than posting a link to some of my youtube videos, because I was, and still am, in favor of organic growth: word of mouth. I still remember the first times someone has signed up that wasn't a friend-of-a-friend, and thinking: "how the hell did this guy find us"?
Since then, google has picked the site up, and now you can find us easily with some well-crafted search terms. This has led to a steady growth in membership, and brought on problems that a purely organic community never experiences: arrogant fakes, entitleds and other weird folk. Some of these problems can be mitigated with careful tweaking of site features, including listing of past opponents, recommendations, and the like, but they cannot be eliminated entirely.
One of the issues that I feel is concerning is the growing number of incomplete profiles. Let me stop for a moment to explain what I think makes a profile complete: correct height/weight, some styles selected, an introduction and at least one profile photo. Some of these are obvious: since this is a wrestling personals site, the most important thing a lot us us will be looking for is compatible guys, compatible being defined as those who share similar styles to us and are comparable in size. (There are, of course, exceptions to this rule, but it should be clear that missing information in this department is detrimental to the usefulness to the site!) An introduction is important for conveying personal information and preferences that cannot be expressed with the styles and interests fields of the profile, and also the mere fact that you spent five minutes writing a few lines helps establish a certain degree of commitment.
Finally, a photo is important, and I cannot stress this enough. The database indicates that profiles with photos receive 500% more initiated communication (challenges and messages that are not replies) than profiles without. This means that you can increase the site's usefulness to you roughly fivefold by posting a single photo!
Unfortunately, the percentage of incomplete profiles has increased with the site's growth. It has reached a level that is detrimental to the use of the site. A short analogy: The stock market has "liquidity consumers" (traders who buy or sell at the present "best price") and "liquidity providers" (traders who buy or sell at a price that they set themselves). The providers are who make the stockmarket work by setting stock prices, and they take a certain risk in doing so; the consumers are at less of a risk, always buying/selling at an optimum. If the volume traded by consumers outstrips that of providers, the stock market has serious problems. To counteract this, most stockmarkets charge a little bit extra to the consumers and give it to the providers. They create an incentive to provide liquidity. (I know this is oversimplified.)
In a similar fashion, members here with complete profiles bring content to a personals site; people without are going to be browsing through that content and taking their picks. Clearly, for a healthy site, the providers need to be in larger number than the takers. For this reason, I intend to make some careful changes to the site to encourage the completion of profiles. Nothing as radical as banning incomplete profiles; just some adjustments that would create incentives to finally write that damn introduction.
What I have in mind is quite simple: if your profile is incomplete, you cannot initiate contact. You can still reply to challenges and other messages sent to you, but in order to seek out other members, you have to show us something first.
In recent days, I have Chatted with some guys with incomplete profiles, trying to get hear out their reasons. Here are some of the reasons I heard so far:
- "I don't really know what to write as an introduction." This one is easy: think of a reason why anyone would like to wrestle you, and write about that. Write about what you enjoy about wrestling, what connects you to a site like this, or what you are seeking primarily.
- "I have relatives / employer / friends, and I don't want them to find my photo on this site." You can make your photos restricted, so only other site members can look at them. Also, some members have been very creative at cropping or blurring their faces on their photos.
- "I don't have time to do the photos and introduction." But you have time to write and reply to messages? Come on.
- "I am technically challenged, I don't know how to make and upload digital photos!" Fair enough. But we live in a century where camera phones, webcams and the like are everywhere. Ask a friend to help you out. In fact, most places that develop films can scan them for you.
- "I have photos on another site." That is great for that other site, it's this site that I'm concerned about.
- "I can send photos by e-mail." Great, so you have no problem sharing your photo? Might as well upload it, or wait until someone who already has done so contacts you.
I am sure there some with a very valid reason for not uploading a photo. For instance, I have been chatting with a guy claiming in his profile to be from Germany, who was actually Chinese. So I get it: oppressive government, concern for personal safety and freedom, etc. But let's be frank for a moment: how did he expect to score a meet if his location was off by half the globe? Hurts me to say it, but my site just might not be useful to someone in his position...
So, here we are. Thank you for reading all this. I would love to hear your thoughts about all this, so please leave a comment.
wrestler2000 (84)
12/05/2010 11:05For me personally it would be ok if only members with photos can initiate contact. For those who are concerned about family or employers there is always the possibility to show a pic without face... The past opponents feature is very useful for me and helps me to find out who met at least one other person from this site.
If someone has no pic, but any past opponents he is for sure real...there are some profiles like that. About that chinese guy...That is just sad.
aeneas (18)
12/05/2010 12:32i also think thats a good idea, that incomplete profiles can not initate contact. as our site is basically for wrestlers to have a possibility to connect and meet, pics and stats are important. i hope this will motivate real people, to do their profiles properly. as they also like themselves to look at complete profiles.
StrikeFighter (78 )
12/05/2010 12:53I totally agree with the suggestion. I especially like the ine "If you want to seek out other members, show us something first."
tapout35 (0)
12/05/2010 13:10totally agree with this there are several members on here who use other peoples pics but if u say u are going to meet go through with it and u all know who you are
hardandy312 (44)
12/05/2010 13:53I agree entirely that incomplete profiles should not be allowed to initiate contact,Profiles without pictures or complete stats should be considered as fake. Tapout35 has raised another valid point, Profiles with fake pictures or pictures of someone else should be deleted or at least given a chance to rectify the situation within x number of days. Another point is pictures being used as profile pictures of birds or scenery etc should also be included in the list. Over the past few months i as a guy who also has his mobile no, and web address on my profile have been contacted by guys who have no profiles on here.
Admin
12/05/2010 15:07Okay, the birds and trees are easy. However, fake photos are not always easy to spot. Sometimes it is trivial, such as the case when they are using pics of porn star Gage Weston. We are stuck needing to rely on our existing facilities for weeding out fakes: past opponents and recommendations. It's not bulletproof, but it's all we have, and for the most part, they have worked pretty good.
hardyandy312: If you post personal contact info on a public profile, don't be surprised if people actually use it to contact you! As an alternative you can make your profile restricted so only registered users can view it.
hardandy312 (44)
12/05/2010 18:31No chance of restricting my profile, have had some good meets with those guys that i was talking about,Risky to say the least but some good wrestles and scraps.I wasn't complaining!!!!
Admin
12/05/2010 21:20(In risposta a questo)
hardyandy: If you're happy, I'm happy :)
WillieVW (0)
12/05/2010 22:05I am very much in favor of purging profiles that are not complete or in active use. Allow a generous time limit for new members to get used to the site and if they are wanting to take advantage of what is offered here over the long term, then they should be held to a certain standard of content in their profile. Also, if a profile goes unaccessed for say 6 months or some time frame you choose - maybe those should be made inactive as well. I believe in a tidy house! grinnnn!
tonytrrr (7)
13/05/2010 10:18I cannot argue with what is being said, eventhough I do not have a picture. I have tried to make contact for over a year with local men and have finally done so with someone who shares my interests and also does not have a picture. I think it is obvious that some of the pictures do not correspond to the stats and you can only suspect how much more is not true. In Dublin we have a problem because it is like a village. There is the story of an ageing Priest who put his picture on a gay lonely hearts website and was outted by a female parishioner. The real question is what was the old girl doing on the website. The city is difficult, the closest matroom is Manchester, finding a friendly hotel is an option for a once off. In any case I will look for a way to comply, but I will need time
Admin
13/05/2010 10:42I would like to hear your story as to why you're not posting a photo, even though you seem to understand that it makes finding an opponent much harder.
tonytrrr (7)
13/05/2010 12:40(In risposta a questo)
There are few men with my build and my age, it may be too obvious. I will have to find a way of getting around this
StrikeFighter (78 )
13/05/2010 12:56I understand tonytrrr's point of view (I lived in Ireland for many years) but it seems to me that with a faceless pic in a restricted profile it is going to be pretty much impossible for anyone to figure out who you are. Yes, Ireland is like a village. Once, when I arranged a meet there (this is years ago) it turned out I actually knew the guy already, under his REAL name! But at least the faceless pic in his profile was really his.
scotsgrappler (116)
13/05/2010 18:43While recognizing the frustration/interest, I think there is a touch too much of the "dirigiste" about this proposal. Clearly the site webmaster and contributors should do as they feel best -but folks do things for varied and various reasons...of course, the legion of cyber scrappers are there (if they'd just say that was their gig -no complaints here) but they probably won't vanish and diminsihing their "access" doesn't strike me as the best way to encourage participation. I guess I tend more to candy than vinegar -)
MAC (0)
13/05/2010 20:22Okay, as a total newbie to the scene (first match last night, will upload pix...nipples still sore and ready for more!), I already understand that there are a lot of fakes and voyeurs out there. And, as a newbie who's smaller than a lot of guys and a self-professed jobbber tendencies, I feel really fortunate to have a local, long time wrestler guiding me through the morass of fakes and posers. I think that the excuses folks sited (as listed in your post) are lame. I work in a somewhat public position in my community and wouldn't really want my profile viewed by a major donor or one of my board members. However, is someone really wants to go through the effort of signing up just to do that, I guess I don't care that much. As for no descriptions and preferences...bull. Even as a "virgin" when I posted on this site, I had a sense of what I was into and, now that I'm stepping into the ring, I will clarify those preferences. I feel sorry for folks in oppressed regimes, but it's down to what the real purpose of this site is...meet and greet and wrestle or soft porn/fetish. I joined for the former.
Jorgefighter (245)
14/05/2010 10:22Anything that guarantees no more fakes, wankers or "onlycybers", is right for me.
nwfan53 (8)
14/05/2010 19:12Are pictures marked private truly private eg are you relying the robots.txt meta file to keep "well behaved" search engines out of the private pictures? There are web spiders that ignore that simple approach and cruise the all folders that are accessible.
hashbock (134)
14/05/2010 20:40One approach that might be considered would be to delete "incomplete" profiles much more quickly for inactivity than one would delete complete profiles. I think there are basically at least three broad categories of profiles: 1) Profiles with confirmed past opponents - definitely real 2) 'Complete' profiles with no confirmed past opponents 3) 'Incomplete' profiles - no pic and/or description
Many of the profiles in group 3 have probably been created solely to be able to see content or to chat online. Since the people behind these profiles don't have much work invested in them, it's no great loss if the profile disappears.
I just reviewed the 64 profiles listed for Ohio and Pennsylvania (my geographical region.) Most of the profiles with no pics are at the bottom of the list in order of last log-on, while most profiles with pics are in the top half of the list, but I did find three profiles without pics that i know belong to real wrestlers who haven't logged in for the past 2 1/2 months. All three have pics posted on other sites, but not here. Not sure why that is.
Perhaps something like the following would work? Group 1 - complete profiles with confirmed opponents - never delete or delete after 2 years inactivity? Group 2 - complete profiles without confirmed opponents - delete after 1 year of inactivity? Group 3 - incomplete profiles - delete after 4 weeks of inactivity? maybe send an e-mail to the e-mail address on record as a reminder first?
This would at least cut down on the growing glut of incomplete profiles that haven't been accessed in months or years.
In the end, though, it's your site, and you should do whatever you think is best. Thanks for all your hard work!
Admin
15/05/2010 8:27Jorgefighter: I'm not against cyber profiles as long as they are upfront about it, do not pretend to be real, and are not deceiving members into believing they want actual real time meets. The site is set up such that if you are here for cyber, you are better off being honest about it, this is a good thing for everyone. In fact, if I started banning cyber people, they would want to re-register, and this time they would feel compelled to lie. Not a good idea.
nwfan53: The folders on this site cannot be browsed directly, so search engines (or overly curious members) will not be able to find private photos. In fact, search engines will not be finding restricted profiles and restricted photos either (restricted content is viewable by registered members only).
hashbock: Yes it is my site, but I still don't believe I possess infinite wisdom (other webmasters have different policies). This is why I'm asking for input here. There is a 4th group actually, guys who have past opponents (or even recommendations), and yet their profiles are incomplete. I count them as good guys, presence here does more good than bad. I think registering on the site for "meat" instead of "meet" is a disappointing experience: this is not a porn or sex site, these guys are better off seeking stuff elsewhere. In fact, they go away on their own, by deleting their empty and inactive profiles after a while is a mere formality. But you are right, I should start doing that, eventually.
bigsplash (0)
15/05/2010 17:27It is an impossible task as you know.
However, how about introducing "classes" of members (if not visibly, behind the scenes), where people meet certain criteria, but appear lower in search results etc. How it is ranked is obviously at your own discretion, but things such as profile completion, photos, fought before, recommendations, time inactive could all be taken into consideration.
Don't advertise what your criteria are, just shove it into any "sorted" DB listings. It would improve the "top to bottom" quality of things listed through search.
Incentives for people to fill profiles, submit photos, only backfires, fakes or cybers will just post anything.
If you want to keep your community of "cyber wrestlers" you might consider syphoning them off into a sub-site, and get them to choose on signing-up if they want real or cyber.
I would think about auto-deleting profiles with non-activity on a shorter timescale, albeit with an auto-generated email warning 4 and 2 weeks before deletion.
I doubt any of these ideas will help. Without becoming a closed and exclusive club, you can't keep out the voyeurs/photo collectors etc without creating a barrier for new genuine wrestlers.
If you can continue to bear the financial costs of running the site Sile, you will probably have to keep it the way it is mate.
zeuscentauro (4)
16/05/2010 8:15I think uncompleted profiles after a week of having been created should be deleted.
Intersport (1)
16/05/2010 15:37Great initiative, go ahead and demand some seriousity of the members here, it makes it all a bettet site for all of us.
Glasgow Jobber (5)
16/05/2010 20:21I agree with your suggestions about removing or limiting profiles that contain very little in the way of useful information or a least a photo giving some idea of a guy's physic/build.
A pet hate of mine (on all sites) is guys that stay logged on (online) but are nowhere near their computer and probably out for the day/night!
Why not build in an automatic log out so if no activity (i.e. clicks) are detected for 20 minutes then the member is logged out (in the same way that online banking sites work)?
That way we will at least know who is really online and can be contacted there and then ....
ready (0)
17/05/2010 0:08Fair play no complains about new fair sensable new rules here
punzel (5)
17/05/2010 11:04I am fully in favour of the new rules, and have little time for people who do not have details on their profiles. I would go as far as to say in most cases, a photo of some sort should be essential, if not compulsory - it doesn't have to include the face, but an idea of the body type is pretty important or a wrestling match site.
wrestler2000 (84)
17/05/2010 12:17There are guys here who do not have pictures, but past opponents and recommendations. It would be a little severe to consider them as fakes only because they don't have a photo on their profile.
NJWoodbridge (141)
17/05/2010 16:59Thanks for the great site. Your proposed rule change is just fine with me.
Some of the suggestions on inactivity made in these comments are also good and you may need to implement them in time to clear out the clutter (as you appear to know from your exchange with hashbock).
hardandy312 (44)
17/05/2010 22:01Why not make it compulsry that new members upload a picture of themselves before allowing them any further access to the site. This in turn might get some of the guys with half completed profiles to put a picture of themselves on and to tell us a little about themselves. Another point that bostoncrabsubmission brings up is that when some of us come on chat,half the guys that have there names in chat are actually not watching the screen,Is it not possible to reset the system a few times through the day to avoid this or to enable the system in some way that you are only in chat for a set amount of time then have to sign in again?? CYBER fighters/wrestlers should be automatically directed into the cyber room or have a mark placed against there name in main chat, thereby saving those who are interested in setting real fights/wrestling from wasting there time approaching them. Still think for all the little gripes that the site is far superior to any of its rivals and with a little tweaking could be even more so.
ikf (23 )
18/05/2010 21:42at least one profile photo - I would be more strict, and require that the required photo should be a clear photo of the person, showing body proportions; say a frontal pic, head to toe, in neutral or fight gear. I want to be able to clearly see what body he brings to the fight.